Podcast-Transkript „Noch nicht Premiere“ (gekürzte Fassung)

Bastian Zimmermann: Noch nicht Premiere. Der Podcast der Münchner Biennale für Neues Musiktheater. Und nun ist es schon die fünfte und letzte Folge unserer kleinen Podcastreihe Noch nicht Premiere. Heute treffe ich tatsächlich das erste Mal eine Person nicht live, sondern online. Es ist die irische Komponistin Ailís Ní Ríain, die das Stück „Hidden Heartache“ zusammen mit mehreren Musikerinnen und Tänzerinnen und auch der Komponistin Julie Hurnton entwickelt hat. Sie ist schwerhörend bzw. fast taub, und deswegen hilft uns die Online-Situation mit einer Live-Transkription, die sie lesen lässt, was ich zu ihr sage. Das Gespräch ist auf Englisch, und ja, danach sehen wir uns dann wahrscheinlich ganz bald auf der Biennale für neues Musiktheater.

Thank you for having me here, like meeting me, Ailís. Like we know each other from before already, and I'm very happy that you will be part in this Munich Biennale for New Music Theatre. Yeah, like your piece, or not only your piece, but like of a whole team, is called “Hidden Heartache”. Can you maybe talk a bit about the piece, how it happened, how it evolved? And yeah, I don't know what the initial point was to start the project?

Ailís Ní Ríain: Sure. The starting point was Simone Keller's album. Simone is the pianist and music performer in the production. She released an album and a book publication in 2024 called Hidden Heartache, which is also the name of the show in English. And the theme of that book and that recording was to explore social inequality in music history. I think she wanted to develop that work further and she wanted to look beyond, I think, those forms as they represent an archive, I guess, but wanted to create something that had a live performative format that's drawing heavily from her research and outcomes in those materials. I also think a key influence for her and the background to this work was the essay which is called My Life as a Twin by Sandra Hetzel, and that introduces ideas of split identity and alternative selves, and crucially for us in this work also, the idea of translation. And then from that, I think a centralist issue, sorry, a central interest started to emerge, which was around translation as both an artistic and indeed a political act. When we're thinking of translation in regard to language, music, bodies, and of course, really crucially, perception.

So, from the very beginning of the project, it was clear that it should be inclusive as practice. So not just a theme of inclusion, but bringing together Deaf and hearing performers and director collaborators, choreographers, dramaturg, and dancers.

Bastian Zimmermann: Amazing. Like, I'm curious about these, yeah, what these translations can be. And I mean, we are already like, we are talking now also in a translation setting for the ones who listen to the podcast, you read transcription, the live transcription of my words and answer to them. So happy that we have this technique. Can you tell a bit more about this, the actual piece? Like, what can I imagine or what will happen?

Ailís Ní Ríain: Well, Hidden Heartache is a music theater piece. And I guess somewhat unusually, it's in body language. So there's no linear narrative as such. But the piece really is a process of searching for a mutual understanding. And it's back to this idea of translation again, because before deaf— because for deaf people, translation and communication and interpretation is the core aspect of our day-to-day how we work in the world. So for us, we are constantly trying to translate, trying to understand, trying to decipher what people mean and also what isn't being said. So there's a great number of things occurring simultaneously. And in this work, we have two deaf and two hearing performers, both of them simply encounter each other in the stage space. And from those misunderstandings, um, dependencies, and then moments of connection gradually unfold. So the space then becomes a place where music and movement and perception continuously transform into each other. And then we also have what we're referring to as a utopian layer, and that's the attempt to imagine a form of communication which is beyond translation, which brings us back to the idea of body language.

Bastian Zimmermann: And so there are now 4 performers, and one of the performers is Simone Keller also, the musician you mentioned where the inspiration came from. So I imagine a bit more, how to say, complex composition process, not only you sitting at the desk and writing notes down, but can you tell a bit about how you developed the piece and the translations with the performers, with you, like choreographers or the directors?

Ailís Ní Ríain: Absolutely. Well, communication is always essentially connected and entangled with power structures. And no more is this clearer than when it comes to a composer and a performer, who holds the power in that situation? And also, when you behold a deaf and hard of hearing, or a deaf or hearing person, again, it comes back to power structures. Who has the ability? Who has the capacity to understand, and effect change in that kind of relationship. So when it came to the composition process, I wanted to look at this quite differently to how I normally work, because there's quite a team of us and people are coming from very different positions. So we have performers here working in Swiss German, in German, in Portuguese. So on the face of it, people are already speaking in different vocal languages, and then we have sign language, and then we have the physical language and composition. So I wanted to create a work which itself was focused on active listening. So we have a company of deaf and hearing performers, and for me, instead of providing a notated score, which for me is what is given, what's the expected with a composer, I guess, I wanted to try and do something different where I asked the question, what is listening?

And of course, what I don't know is what listening is for a hearing person. I know what listening is for me, but I don't know what it's like in this case for Simone Keller, the musician at the heart of the piece. So I wanted to create a piece that actually puts the focus on her ability to listen, because that is what I don't have in the production, and two of our performers also don't understand the world through a hearing perspective. So in this production, I think it's also kind of crucial to understand that composition is not understood purely as writing music, but as the collective process between the sound, body, and the stage. So it's a number of things coming together. The works in that case then are not simply performed because they're coming from a different place entirely to begin with. So we're looking at material, information, sound, gesture, and it is reinterpreted and then transformed and ultimately redistributed within the ensemble and then to our audience.

“Hidden Heartache” is about to premiere. Was there a particular moment during rehearsals that has stayed with you?
The most impactful moment for me was seeing the first full run-through. The way sound, choreography, staging, and lighting came together was striking. Each element clearly carried the imprint of the collaborators who shaped it, while at the same time forming a cohesive artistic statement.

How did the collaboration with the collective ox&öl come about, and what drew you to working together on this project?
I first worked with ox&öl and dancer Lua Leirner who is also part of „Hidden Heartache”, on a 2021 project called “Extensions”. It remains one of my favorite projects I’ve been involved in. Philip (Bartels) and Simone (Keller) are deeply thoughtful collaborators who always approach the work holistically. “Extensions” was based on the journal entries of Enno Park, a self-described “cyborg,” writer, and philosopher who lost his hearing and later received a cochlear implant. Composing for that piece was my first experience writing for deaf performers and audiences. Working with Lua and the Deaf community in Zurich taught me a great deal about different ways of perceiving movement and sound, and that experience continues to shape my work.

In “Hidden Heartache”, movement seems to function not only as expression, but also as a starting point for the music and vice versa. What roles do the body, movement, or spatial dynamics play in your own compositional process?
For me, sound is movement: bodies resonating in space. My music is therefore inherently theatrical, with a strong focus on the relationships between performers and their physical actions.

How do you experience the interplay between your compositions and Ailís Ní Ríain’s work within a shared music theatre evening?
Philip (Bartel) and Lee (Méir) have done a beautiful job of connecting Ailís’ work and mine through choreography, staging, and direction. Although the pieces are quite different, we share an approach to the piano that invites performer interaction and spontaneous response, creating a meaningful dialogue and sense of connection between them.

Is there something you discovered about your own compositional practice through working on “Hidden Heartache”?
This process reminded me how much I value being present in rehearsals. My favorite part of composing is trying things out live and responding to what happens in the room. I especially enjoyed working closely with the performers to shape the piece in real time.